About 40 Maplewood residents met with McDonald’s representatives, including the potential franchisee, Monday evening at the library to discuss a possible new McDonald’s on the southwest corner of Manchester and Big Bend, but it turned out to be more of a free-for-all than a discussion, finding little middle ground.
Ellis Avenue home owners were invited because the proposed McDonald’s would be at the end of their street; others came and no one was turned away.
Engineer with Farnsworth Group, Bob Polk, began by saying Shaefer Shell, currently on the corner, is an “old worn out prototype” and “not the most desirable use for this corner.” The neighbors disagreed.
He said the McDonald’s plan is acceptable to St. Louis County Highways and the city of Maplewood, then was barraged with questions and comments he didn’t try to answer.
“Do any of them live on our block?… Do they drive that every day?… Do they try to get out of our street?… St. Louis County didn’t approve that exit onto Ellis, I’ll tell you that.”
McDonald’s real estate manager, Tom Maraist said several times they weren’t there to try to answer questions, but to note the concerns.
The plan has two entrances, from eastbound Manchester, and north and southbound Big Bend; and two exits, onto Manchester and Ellis Avenue. (See a PDF file of the compete site plans.)
Residents were concerned about traffic exiting onto Ellis and backing up on the street, cut-thru traffic going by (possibly speeding) MRH Early Childhood Center and down Ellis, drivers ignoring right turn only onto Manchester, and a design that discourages pedestrians.
80-year-old Harriet Clipper said her house is across the street from the proposed Ellis exit. “Who’s going to buy my house when it faces a McDonald’s?” she asked.
When another resident asked how his property value will be affected, construction manager, Dan Gross said, “We don’t take that into consideration.”
Alan Wieneman, a resident on Comfort Avenue, said the plan might look great on paper, but doesn’t consider kids walking to school, library and pool.
“QuikTrip going in was bad enough—was a disaster—from the people’s standpoint who live in the neighborhood. Adding a McDonald’s to an already high-traffic area is going to be a (mess),” he said.
Maraist agreed there’s high-traffic. “That’s why we want this corner,” he said. “Of any other site in Maplewood, this is the corner. If for some reason we don’t take this corner, then we would put reinvestment into Deer Creek and reopen (that location).” Many residents said that was fine, though the potential owner, Mark Proctor, said it wasn’t an option for him.
An MRH student on the girls soccer team asked if they could use the lot for a car wash, as they’ve done with the Shell station. Proctor said McDonald’s has supported basketball camps, but didn’t respond to her question.
Ward 3 councilman, Barry Greenberg said the city has a goal of connecting the downtown area with the Metro Link station, and this McDonald’s isn’t a good transition.
“It looks like it belongs in Chesterfield or some other suburban area that doesn’t have the same qualities that Maplewood does,” Greenberg said.
The public will have an opportunity to see the plans and comment at the Maplewood Planning and Zoning meeting on Jan. 5 at 7 p.m.
If it’s gotta be a McDonald’s, wouldn’t Maplewood be a dream test-market for something more like this???
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2885691/This-trendy-new-inner-city-cafe-actually-MCDONALD-S-Fast-food-giant-continues-curious-gourmet-overhaul-drastically-branded-McCafe-Sydney.html
They stated the McDs would have a drive thru so little to no chance. They’re not going to voluntarily change the entire concept to an urban build which pretty much the opposite of what was proposed. The city needs to demand this though.
My first thought way,how ridiculous, but I read through and the article – How I would not mind stopping in to buy lunch.
McDonalds did not impress me as caring about our community. Evasive and totally lacking in understanding our town. I understand that because to them “it’s all about their money”. I remember they weren’t very truthful about the status of the Deer Creek location or they would have opened in mid August as they stated. Hmmm what aren’t they telling us about the Shell location. Will it close down too?
Barry Greenberg for mayor! I’m all for Maplewood coming into it’s own after many years of no commercial growth, and there has been some outstanding progress. However, the current mayor needs to start listening to his constituents and remember that we are first a community where people choose to live, and second we are a place for people to come to shop and eat. Not the other way around.
My vote is for anyone other than Barry Greenburg. He voted YES on the Tim Hortons. He had a choice. It’s gonna be bad when they start cooking the donuts. Barry will say anything to get your vote.
As a resident of Hazel, which is getting a 24hr Tim Horton’s thrust upon us, to our neighbors on Ellis, let me offer this. Be sure to stop this or get the pain points fixed prior to this reaching the City Council. Greenberg and Faulkingham are the only ones who will really listen to and try to work with you. The mayor and at least three of the councilmembers will appove anything proposed by McDonald’s.
Tim Horton’s met with us early on as well and at least pretended to want to work with us. They did select a nicer fence and better landscaping. For this they took credit as negotiable and refused to give in on putting an entrance/exit onto our residential street as well as 24hr drive through operation next to a home that has been occupied by the same family since the 30’s.
Matt….Barry Greenburg might have listened but at the end of the day he voted YES for the Tim Hortons. He had a choice and voted YES. The smell from the cooking will keep your neighbors from opening their windows and enjoying the clean fresh air in the Spring and Summer. Again, he could have and should have voted NO but ignored the citizens.
I am a non-Ellis resident that sat quietly in the back was able to observe this meeting. If I had to describe it in one word it would be “passionate.” That was definitely clear from the start. At times the meeting bordered on uncivil, but the point of the meeting was met from McDonald’s standpoint- they heard the concerns of the residents of Ellis. Although, this was done with no effort put into public relations.
The meeting definitely started out on a bad note as Doug mentioned. The approach the McD reps took was we are here to save your community from the old Shell. Reps would have had more success (or at least held the attention of the audience longer) if they took the approach of explaining why staying in the current location with the flood plain doesn’t make sense and why they want the proposed corner and are there to listen to how to build a site plan that fits the concerns of Ellis residents.
Ultimately I walked away with the impression that McD’s has not put much thought into the Maplewood community and strictly thought about maximizing profit. It was clear from what was said that McDs had chosen the location on accessibility and created a site plan to maximize thru put (up to 150 cars during peak hours). There were few places the plan could be adjusted for concerns that the residents voiced. McD’s reps stated they would not scrap the drive thru plan, but I suspect if they did they would have no issues getting approval for the project.
I am curious see if any attempt (even very minor ones) is made to adjust plans prior to the P and Z committee hearing.
Traffic at this corner and it’s connecting streets already is a major pain for those of us just trying to get to the comfort of our homes in Maplewood at certain times of the day. We already have one fast-food place there, as well as a QT, which also sells fast-food along with its gasoline. Surely, charming, unique little Maplewood can get by just fine without a new burger joint clogging up our arteries…pun intended!
Go Barry Greenberg! Thank you for speaking up!
Also, why don’t they (McDonald’s) just reinvest in the Deer Creek McDonald’s? That would be preferable to this terrible plan.
The Deer Creek McDonald’s is in a flood plain. I don’t think they can get financing and/or insurance unless they raise the elevation a number of feet.
And the old QT?
I actually live on Flora and the change of location has been good for our street. People would speed up and down our street on their way to work, school, etc with no regard for the very large amount of young children in our area, all to get their coffee or soda on their way. No thank you to the traffic, noise, and the disgusting smell of a McDonalds on our street! I feel terrible for the people that will be effected by this change of location, as well as the families who gave to deal with the Tim Hortons. There is absolutely no reason for a 24 hour drive through to back to a residence.
Why wouldn’t McDonald’s be able to get insurance? Literally 8-10 new stores opened up recently in Deer Creek Plaza (Marshalls, Ross, Joann Fabrics, Buy Buy Baby, McAlisters Deli, GFS, Shoe Carnival, ect.). With those new stores, no new structures were added, and the same goes to the McDonald’s location. All that needs to be done is some interior renovations. Exterior renovations were completed in late spring/early summer. If they were going to tear down the existing building and build a new one, then there would be an issue. But they are only renovating it, so insurance/financing shouldn’t be a problem
I do feel very bad for the homeowners in that area…I sure as heck didn’t want a Wal-Mart basically in my back yard (even blocks away) knew it would bring our reputation down (Maplehood) – but many Maplewood residents did not speak up. I assume they felt the convenience for them would outweigh the inconveince of others–it was just ‘far enough’ from their own homes to not care. We just saw the same with the QT. Unfortunately, I think the writing is on the wall for the Shell/corner – if not McDonalds somebody else. The actual landowners will eventually get what they want.
This is a good point about Walmart. We should note too, the Walmart is still bringing down our city. These issues don’t go away!
There are some examples of Walmart “bringing down our city” I am sure, but I would say that on the whole, our city is much, much better off than before Walmart came. Let’s be realistic, if Walmart and all of those other evil chains up on Hanley didn’t exist (which I generally do not frequent because I prefer Independents), then our tax revenue wouldn’t pay for your free trash pickup, leaf vacuuming or excellent (best of any city I know) snow removal service our little burb provides. In addition, Walmart tax revenue helps fund, indirectly, our city’s ability to help our awesome Indie’s in the business district during start up and beyond…….we have a pretty good thing going here in Maplewood, much of which would not have been possible without Walmart. Ironic I suppose.
MJA – I am completely aware and fully understand the revenue generated. My issue isn’t with our reputation, honestly, only those of us who live here really know it’s decent – our reputation proceeds itself. Sure. business district is cool to visit, but not as many looking to buy here as we’d like to think…
My point is that it is much easier to be “clinical” about the services received from the income generated when you do not live ‘next door’ to these places. With the Walmart, the majority of protesting were those of us North of Manchester — knowing that even if we were blocks away, cut through traffic, loitering, etc would increase on our blocks…and yet it seemed we did not get much support from those South of Manchester because it didn’t really affect them. But now, the same thing is happening to a different part of town and the shoe is on the other foot. I am just saying you can complain as much as you want, but it wont stop change from coming…ESPECIALLY when you own a home adjacent to major roadways. We had all but “won” getting a Costco instead of a walmart and Walmart came in at the last meeting saying they would build without TIF…so they won.
And to your point of money and services…might want to do some digging into our budget because something isn’t making much sense. When we moved into Maplewood in – the major source of revenue was the K-Mart at Deer Creek & Shop-n-Save…When KMart moved to the city…residents were told we lost $400k in revenue, so we lost several free services. Then the Wal-Mart opened, along with Sam’s. BOTH of those businesses were built without TIF. Yes, our services were restored. But we all know that Walmart/Sams has to be bringing in ridiculously much more revenue than that old empty KMart did–yet beyond the business district–where the heck is that money going? Our our employee’s overpaid? Is our government being wasteful? I took a look at the budget — glad we could buy IPads for our elected officials, send them on some nice (training) trips, interesting to see money in and out of different areas… but our streets are still being repaired at a snails pace based on an almost decade old review… And at the same time –anyone that has lived here for a while also knows that squeaky wheels aren’t smiled upon kindly… When I tried to bring this up several years ago — all of sudden, I started getting notices and fines on things on our property that had never been an issue — and when I shut up — the notices and fines stopped. Wonder if this will trigger them again..
Thank you for attending & reporting this meeting. We encourage ALL Maplewood residents to attend the next meeting on 1/5/15 @ 7pm at city hall for the planning & zoning committee & voice your concerns!